Re: DRAFT TWINSHOCK SERIES RULES - FOR DISCUSSION

papsck Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:32 pm

For the record which 12 bikes will be excluded?
When you talk to riders at meetings they moan about Rotaxes/newbuilds but when things are discused it goes silent Surprised

sidekick39ish Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:58 pm

chivers rotax
meads x 2 mead bsa
gary wolff. wolff yamaha
chris walker. eml/home build yamaha.
terry parsons. norton wasp/modified eml forks.
paul morris. rotax.
thumper. rotax.
chris batt. rotax.
mark kinge. khr rotax.
steve kendrew. rotax.
paul harker. mono wasp yamaha.

Plus if you get your way . all the single yams and honda`s. making it around 16-18 total.

yes some do have other bikes they can use . but thats not the point.

DRAFT TWINSHOCK SERIES RULES - FOR DISCUSSION - Page 2 102835

DRAFT TWINSHOCK SERIES RULES - FOR DISCUSSION - Page 2 102835

Mallows Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:02 pm

Ian, i think the max width of 1150mm is too wide as firstly this is a modern bike measurement and both wasp and EML were never that wide. Perry Millers EML is 1100mm wide and my wasp is 1090mm wide, and i can remember the max measurement changing to 1150 in the early 90's, but i can't remember what it used to be The 50 mm difference is a massive amount as it makes the bike so much more stable on both straights and corners.

Mallows Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:10 pm

Kev, Terry's forks are pre 85 Jumbo forks, so why can't they be allowed, and whats wrong with Chris Walkers bike other than he's lowered the seat rail, i think the GEOMETRY is still standard, which in my oppinion is the most important detail that everyones missing !!!

sidekick39ish Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:22 pm

i`m only interpertating the rules set out or suggested by others.

No modified chassis. class 1.

Or are little changes allowed.

Terry has changed his forks from standard.
Chris walker has fited vmc swing arm/forks. moped chair swing arm and many other modified car bits.
Gary wolff built two bsu/eml rep chassis.
Meads built there own chassis.

I remember loads of mods being done back in the 80`s and no one banned them. it was called having the edge and being origonal.

how many changes before its deemed a copy/modified chassis. not in keeping with the sport.

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sidekick39ish Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:38 pm

You all have to understand that as forum moderator i am sat on the fence.

I am trying to see things from every angle.

point out the pros and cons of these rule`s.

Trying to keep things going with suggestions and ideas weather they are right or wrong. you decide.

My word is never final.

At the end of the day i just want to ride anywhere anywhen.

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Dave Tye Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:08 pm

May be only a small point, but I know Michael mentioned that team Mead's new Godden outfit is built as a replica of a period chasis which I think they have had verified with the Pre65 club... Not sure if this would still make class one though?

I think Chris and I would qualify for class 1 with ours? 1981 Wasp with an Norton in it? Still running Wasp Wheels and Lockheed Calipers too, although I admit the shocks are kinda purple! ;-)

I agree with Shaun's comment about the width thing, perhaps this could be suggested for class 1, perhaps the current widths suggested could be used for class 2 to avoid excluding any outfits currently out there and making them unusable? Or is this over complicating a matter that people already have some hostility towards?

I do get why people are skeptical about this, especially given past queries over rules, but once we got through the initial setup I think it would be clearer for everyone. From what I understand of the suggestions of Ian no currently active outfits would be exluded from at least class 2 with the exception of a few which are really not in the spirit of either class? (KHR, Mono Wasp and Rotax etc would all fit with the class 2 regs easily).

Cheers (Now hiding behind the desk waiting for the volley of comments and corrections to my ill informed opinons! ;-) ).

Dave

Dave Tye Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:15 pm

And on another positive note... If I have read them right they would allow Pre84 Two Stroke Twins in, thus doing away with the silly pre74 Two-Stroke rule and letting aircooled Jumbos in, which are another period machine which currently can't be used anywhere easily?

Surely that has to be a good thing :-)

Dave

:??<<:

doogle Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:58 pm

sidekick39ish wrote:Under these new rules . i think thats 12 outfits excluded from riding in the highly modified pre84 class.

Might be intresting to see just how many clubs would be happy to loose £500 plus per meeting in these hard times.

How? They run in the appropriate class. The whole point is nobody is excludd.

And will the likes of Mr pellin , Mr Woods, Sheppard and The Kernal and others in favour of the new rules be riding all and every meeting put on for the highly modified pre84 class. All the welsh, pre 65, dartmouth, 3 counties and others, Because without there support at every meeting, there will not be enough outfits to make these small friendly meetings viable. Thus the end of small clubs putting meetings on. Thus the end of grass roots twinshock sidecar racing.

Personally I would not want to ride most of the above, but no club HAS to run to the rules, they can do what they like.
If the consensus is anything goes then my old mate Kinge will be free to ride where he wants on the KHR Rotax then , and everyone will stop moaning about it. Not that he needs the Rotax to do well, he hasn't forgotten how to ride a big proper twinshock...

Leaving the very popular KenHall, Farliegh castle etc. which struggle every year to get entrys without this rule in place.

Yes mortimer had a full line up resently. but there was no date clash this year. what happens when they clash again. Struggled to get 15 last year. 5 of which will now be banned under new rule.
Mortimer had a full line up with no Rotax. It was music to the ear.

This is not my opinion but that of Twinshock fan.

adam Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:03 pm

INTERPRETATION

Decisions regarding the interpretation of these rules rest with the organisation or club running meetings and their decisions in these matters shall be final.

Thank f**k for this rule! DRAFT TWINSHOCK SERIES RULES - FOR DISCUSSION - Page 2 61837

DRAFT TWINSHOCK SERIES RULES - FOR DISCUSSION - Page 2 61837

doogle Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:10 pm

Pelling, Woods, Shep and Kernel all have class 1 bikes btw. So we don't care if modified are allowed to ride or not frankly. What three of us ( can't talk for Shep ) want is bikes on the line at the end of the day.
Poxy Rotaxes sound like wet farts. They are allowed, as long as they are not to fast, or to shiny it seems...
It seems nothing has changed, everyone moans in the pits about certain bikes, but when a small group have the bollocks to try and get a workable solution so everyone can ride suddenly all the problem bikes are not a problem anymore.

shepherd Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:53 am

sidekick39ish wrote:chivers rotax
meads x 2 mead bsa
gary wolff. wolff yamaha
chris walker. eml/home build yamaha.
terry parsons. norton wasp/modified eml forks.
paul morris. rotax.
thumper. rotax.
chris batt. rotax.
mark kinge. khr rotax.
steve kendrew. rotax.
paul harker. mono wasp yamaha.

Plus if you get your way . all the single yams and honda`s. making it around 16-18 total.

yes some do have other bikes they can use . but thats not the point.

Thats more than enough to have their own class, however I think you are being a little dramatic with your list,, some of these bikes are within the spirit of twinshocks , others are borderline and a few are blatant cheats.

To quote ,, yes some have other bikes they can use, but thats not the point,, very true,, the point is they will be much less competitive if they ride "other bike" therefor gaining an unfair advantage over those who choose to stay within the rules.

Im with doug and co, I want to see bikes on the line so give these hybrid bikes their own class and everyone gets a ride.

P.S. Be interesting to see which "bike" people choose to ride if these rules are implemented.

sidekick39ish Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:33 pm

Now the french have opened there own debate.

http://sidesanciens.forumgratuit.org/t141-votre-avis

DRAFT TWINSHOCK SERIES RULES - FOR DISCUSSION - Page 2 Ktm_co11

DRAFT TWINSHOCK SERIES RULES - FOR DISCUSSION - Page 2 Ktm_co11

doogle Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:46 pm

ay
I'd like your opinion on this sidecar configuration

: Slight reply BSU, but with 2 shock absorbers
: Reiger, brembo, Talon, etc etc with an engine, Rotax 630 or honda 650
What do you think of this sidecar
Can ride in our races of ancient sidecars?

Club Presidents, riders, spectators thanks for your answers.

(PS for info I remain faithful has my yamaha Wasp)

wasp84

Hi, with a photograph could be deemed the result.

I dared not tell the

Not picture
Is not on the side but on the philosophy that the question

It should look like that...:
[You must be registered and logged to see this image]
the BSU appeared in 1994, thus 18 years; is this a side as old!
the entire issue is here!
Personally, I see no problem, if it will increase the number of sides
on the grounds of old; but it should not become the majority.
otherwise it would be a category of semi-anciennes..

Hello Thierry,
I me interested again in the cross side, also I give my opinion without prejudice.
As far as engines are concerned, I think that we should admit that the 4-stroke air cooled and fix a date deadline (90? I do not know)
And then may make rare exceptions (Husky Piron)
But, as said above, you have to have < entry > to make a race,.
The final of the Championship to Tarare, I was pleased and surprised to see PAPI / Pinto on Wasp / xs.
Also glad to see a large majority of 4-stroke

Hi Thierry!
In my opinion, there is a problem of 'regulation' on demos and other races. Each organization has its expectations and desires. For my part and my organization, I refuse this kind of side. For me, old side is engine 4 time and pre 84 chassis. Certainly there were a few exceptions but good...
This notice commits only me!
Motocyclistement,.

DRAFT TWINSHOCK SERIES RULES - FOR DISCUSSION - Page 2 499460

DRAFT TWINSHOCK SERIES RULES - FOR DISCUSSION - Page 2 499460

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